How Ukrainians online argue about the politics of the war

Just a few small problems left: — Find a replacement. Aren't you planning to come back from Antalya with a professional team that has a concrete plan to end the war? — Hold elections under shelling. Won't you tell us how to do that? And with what money?

Replacing Ze during the war is impossible, unfortunately. But we can at least press his servants to finally peel themselves off his dollar teat and start working for the country, forming a normal, professional government rather than a political and gangster one.

well, see how it turned out, there were 15 people at the action you called for today; if everyone who called for it had shown up, there would have been twice as many

But there are bank details for where to bring the cash, and a "RESISTANCE Training Programme".

I will stop writing about Zelensky's resignation because it provokes the community.

Yaroslav, it seems you are supporting the narrative of pro-Russian parties with topics like this, where the aim is to destabilise the internal situation: corruption; not believing in victory (there are people here whose loved ones are in the occupied territories), etc. I hope I'm wrong.

In Ukraine it is simply not safe now to express thoughts like those in the original post, because they may come to visit. I believe public resonance is needed, because only it can now somehow shake this whole system and give hope for change.

go shine a torch on them too, maybe the thieves will vanish, haha, what madness, a petition!!!

A petition is a kind of indicator of how united society is around a certain goal, because on the internet this is sometimes hard to tell because of information bubbles and bots.

The President made it clear that Ukrainians cannot lose three things: dignity, freedom and Andriy Yermak.

You go out personally, little Gapon.

Zheleznyak? Is that the one who raided the Holos party using cells of fake party members so as to share less of the party budget funding (and that's tens of millions of hryvnias)? Good luck to him, hang in there and all that.

President Volodymyr Zelensky has dismissed Andriy Yermak from the post of head of the President's Office.

1) Hungary is not a neutral country, it is a NATO member.

If NATO hasn't completely lost its common sense, it harbours no hopes of help from Hungary.

and then the Germans were hanged for the same tricks. They may well remember.

Don't say it, we've been laughing for the fifth year

Neutrality doesn't exist. When there is someone who wants to and can seize a country, he will seize it.

>>> the question that leads somewhere is "Do I want to exist inside this structure?" — and if the answer is "yes", you owe it for that Owe it by the fact of being born? And if the answer is "no", will they open the borders so everyone who wants can leave? A very interesting position, very Soviet in style...

Fighting for the state... is about like burning out to death in a salaried job. For the nation, for family, for revenge — imho a better motivator.

I was born in the USSR. At school I was taught that every man's highest duty is to give his life for the Motherland. […] But then the USSR suddenly vanished, along with people's savings.

When will Portnikov fulfil his duty?

An interesting sleight of hand: the interests of mafia clans are presented as the state. And the fact that they haven't robbed you completely is presented as an achievement you must give your life for.

This topic has been discussed a million times. It always comes down to one thing. Whoever has a more advantageous position in the state looks for arguments why others must be sacrificed to preserve it. And the other way round. Whoever is at the bottom, in the role of a resource, doesn't want to hear these arguments. These two groups will never agree, because it is a zero-sum game. Either some lose their position in the state, or the others lose their health or their life.

Don't want to — don't go. Keep sitting at home, you've already sat there 4 years, Bolt will bring you food. […] But don't cover fear with "logic" and chatter about owing nothing. When someone had to hold the line, there were always those who stood up.

Relax, all of you, it's simpler than that: you were just not very lucky to be born in this place at this time.

Is it really so hard to admit your own infantilism and sit quietly, instead of inventing dozens of senseless excuses? It's truly pathetic and worthless.

I see a new trend. Instead of paying employees you should tell them they work for a higher goal and a bright future. This has happened before :(

"Do I want to exist inside this structure?" No, I don't.

It seems to me that many here would now say they don't want to live in this structure, because the EU offers almost everyone better alternatives.

Congratulations! It's clear you listened carefully to Portnikov and drew the right conclusions. Pity you're in the minority.

Portnikov first worked for the CPSU because he graduated from Moscow State University, journalism faculty no less (they didn't take just anyone), defended the CPSU (alongside Khuilo, by the way), then worked for and defended oligarchs, and now who is he defending? Propagandist — Portnikov.

You "owe" when something was lent to you, something material. And when there's no debt, there's no duty :) In all other cases it's a mighty con for suckers.

Do you understand that in 1–5 years you will have to win the state back from the 5–8 thousand families who have owned Ukraine (Ukrainian SSR 2.0) for the last 35–50 years?

The state is us. It is built on consensus among its citizens, and so exists only to protect the interests of its citizens. If the consensus disappears, the state disappears too. […] Why might that consensus disappear? For example, because the state stops protecting the interests of its citizens and protects only part of the ruling class, as has happened in history. So think about it, gentlemen.

The state is a concrete bureaucratic apparatus. Everyone in that apparatus bears responsibility, including criminal responsibility, for criminal negligence and abuse of power. Stop this nonsense. The state is NOT us!

Such a mighty reinforcement you've got there.

As long as Russia hasn't come for them, they don't need Ukraine. When it does, they'll forget Bandera and want security guarantees, or at least to buy drones and get instructors.

Bandera has nothing to do with it the Poles are just stirring things up they really don't want to lose the chance to dump Ukrainian grain at the border and watch the EU give subsidies to other farmers (and they probably have 100 such reasons)

We need to forget about Mr Bandera until the end of the war; that's easy, because 99.999% of people don't know who he is. The problem is that the stupid authorities won't let us.

It isn't Bandera holding us back now, oh, it isn't Bandera.

Setting aside the question of when Ukraine joins the EU and whether we'll live to see it, I'm curious what we'll do if the Poles dig in and veto accession. Macedonia had to change its name to North Macedonia and amend its constitution after Bulgaria's veto. So what will we choose — Bandera or the EU?

Obviously Bandera is already cemented into the national consciousness and that can't be changed. […] I see only one strategy — wait until their government changes. Something like in Hungary.

I wonder how he will justify the Jewish pogroms carried out by some members of the OUN(b) in Lviv in 1941?

— Cancel Bandera with an OK face — Join the EU — Restore Bandera from the latest backup --- — Profit

The Poles were taken into the EU with the Home Army, weren't they? Why should Ukrainians give up the UPA?

Poland has elections soon. All this is foam. After the elections it will settle.

Why is Volodymyr Zelensky destroying diplomatic ties with friendly countries?

"With Bandera Ukraine will not join the European Union." And why do we need the EU if there's no Bandera there?)

In Łódź a passer-by beat up a Pole in the street because he took him for a Ukrainian zaxid.net/...o_za_ukrayintsya_n1641513 But the xenophobes are Ukrainians, don't mix it up. And on Piłsudski Avenue at that)

The cybersecurity role is overrated — and the data prove it. Portnikov already explained to you at DOU Day: the issue is not Fedorov at all, but the absence of a government of national salvation and the Verkhovna Rada's lack of agency. But that's exactly what Ukrainians voted for in 2019.

So do I understand correctly that those who came out to the rally signed the new contracts from Fedorov and the MoD and want to support the minister for his efficiency? :D

What difference does it make to me?) Klymenko comes, they'll drag people out of flats. Nothing will change for me.

It's naive to think that last time Ze was stopped only by people with cardboard. There was a push from European partners, who have real influence because they give the money. This time they don't care about some Fedorov — Ze decided to change the defence minister, it's not the first time.

The whole of Threads is full of wailing: "I'm starting to lose trust in Zelensky", "We have a new presidential candidate" etc. One could say people have got dumber, but no, what's the point.

I was never a fan of Fedorov after the "cybersecurity role" and Diia City; but blaming him for not fixing all his predecessors' systemic mistakes in 7 months in office is terminal-stage idiocy.

After these reshuffles the MoD and the Interior Ministry will be headed by two cop buddies. Can you imagine how much the "cooperation" between the police and the ТЦК will "improve", especially when it comes to catching and delivering people?

Isn't it clear that the problem isn't Fedorov? Many of those who came out and wrote said they didn't support Fedorov. But the main problem is something else: Zelensky's choice between Fedorov and Syrskyi is a choice between reforms and "leave everything as it is". And this "as it is" no longer suits people!

You chose Kvartal — you live in Kvartal.

Wait, isn't Fedorov that guy who rolled out Diia and who people here on DOU used to make up jokes about?

__________ gave Ukrainian society a dose of hope.

Sign the petition: keep Mykhailo Fedorov as Minister of Defence of Ukraine ‼️itd.rada.gov.ua/...ions/Petition/Index/13812 ‼️

Elections can be held, but on several conditions: 1. A return to standards of free speech and journalism. Closing the single lie-o-phone, returning the channels Espreso, 5 Kanal and Priamyi, illegally removed from national broadcasting.

Britain held elections perfectly well during WWII, and yes, Brits at the front voted. And votes were collected from everyone who wanted. Yes, it took a long time. But democracy and the replaceability of power are that very great value that must never be lost, even during war.

Maybe they're needed, but how? Elections aren't just putting a mark on a ballot. They're also candidates meeting voters and debating each other. Can that be made safe? I think the answer is obvious.

Elections during war are pure populism and Fedorov hit his audience 100%. Look how it's burning.

"58% Yes, elections are needed now" I'm still green in life, but how do you imagine this? I'm not even talking about which candidates you're considering. Are we going to vote on vibes again? Wasn't Servant of the People enough?

The biggest problem is that elections are a political struggle. Different political groups compete and in effect work to split society. That's normal when there's no war. But in wartime it's a disaster.

It's impossible to hold elections during war because a million soldiers won't be able to vote. And many other reasons too. That's the whole discussion.

That's not a discussion, it's an excuse. How many "millions" of soldiers exactly won't be able to vote, what needs to be done to give them that possibility, which procedures to change. […] And keeping the mafia in power because "we can't hold elections" — that's an excuse.

Why won't they be able to vote? When it comes to sitting on smartphones everyone has access to everything, but when it's elections suddenly they can't? The guys chat from the trenches and send their salary to their wives via Privat from dugouts. Voting in Diia is more than realistic.

Is whoever made this poll a complete stranger to logic? The first three options don't contradict each other.

Given recent events (corruption scandals) I'm changing my position on elections and think elections must be held. And the Rada and the President together. The current authorities must either confirm their mandate or go.

Our community head managed to assemble the necessary electoral commission; on the way they turned off into a tree belt and counted everything the way it should be. […] I don't believe this can be done in the current conditions. So for me all the theoretical debates have no practical sense. Now ruzzia won't let elections happen, in a year or two the green and wise ones won't let them happen.

Once he was fired, he remembered elections.

Elections are not possible under the law. Full stop. Better he names names and exposes the corruption schemes. Then we can talk. Plus it was Fedorov himself who promoted this system. He kept silent about corruption all these years. And once he got kicked out he started telling half the truth?

As far as I know, Mr Fedorov has never once been at the front or anywhere near it. Talk of elections and so on carries little weight from a person who lacks even half the range of knowledge needed in our situation. So with all respect, his address is not relevant.

Elections in Ukraine are pointless and counterproductive even in peacetime. On the whole democracy, to put it mildly, has given Ukraine nothing in terms of economic, scientific-technical and military development.

And who are the candidates? Is there even one for peace? Because if the choice is only whether to send people to their death "technocratically" or "the old way", that's no choice.

Elections are impossible. But Ze must go. Just like that, into the sunset. Ukraine can live without a president. Even legally.

Turbo-patriots on DOU: "under the constitution there can be no elections during war!" The president: "the constitution is on pause" It's hard being a turbo-patriot, of course, hard.

Only if Fedorov goes to organise elections in frontline villages and in the occupied territory, which under the constitution is Ukrainian.

God, what crap people write in the comments. And these people are trusted to program something? Or did bots swarm in?

A question for the fans of elections. What use are elections? Which of your problems did elections solve in the past?

Why impossible, it's possible. Field polling stations for the army, ordinary ones for the rest of Ukraine, those abroad simply don't vote, and that's it.

It's good that the words about elections came from such a currently hyped figurehead as Fedorov. Obviously, elections are needed only to elect a Ukrainian Pétain who will sign the peace (capitulation). We'd better accept peace before Putin smashes the remains of civilisation in Ukraine.

Holding elections would be an absolute miracle. But even the mere fact that someone dared to talk about it gives rise to hope, for the first time in a long while.

Elections can be held but — purely electronic via smartphone — authorised votes (bank ID), not anonymous, because... read on — an open read-only database to prevent "ballot-rigging" (anyone can count the votes at any time, see who voted for what etc.) everything else is shit from Stalin's time with paper and fraud at every level

In 2019 there were 4.3 million Ukrainians abroad, officially registered as voters 400–500 thousand. Of them, ~60 thousand voted. For some reason in 2019 nobody gave a damn, but now it's very important to Zelensky that someone might not be able to vote, and great emphasis is put on it. Anything to avoid holding elections.

Again, elections are needed to determine this, because for now the authorities act as if the majority wants to fight, relying on polls where 60% support Zelensky and don't want to give up the rest of Donbas for peace.

Because they ask the wrong question: they should ask whether you personally are ready to go and defend the rest of Donbas. And then it will immediately turn out that those willing to fight for Donbas are far fewer than 60%.